Date: Sat, 3 Sep 94 04:30:03 PDT From: Advanced Amateur Radio Networking Group Errors-To: TCP-Group-Errors@UCSD.Edu Reply-To: TCP-Group@UCSD.Edu Precedence: Bulk Subject: TCP-Group Digest V94 #192 To: tcp-group-digest TCP-Group Digest Sat, 3 Sep 94 Volume 94 : Issue 192 Today's Topics: IP encapsulation NOS as router (3 msgs) Putting pk232 in KISS - here's how. (4 msgs) TCP-Group Digest V94 #189 Thanks (Was: IP encapsulation) Send Replies or notes for publication to: . Subscription requests to . Problems you can't solve otherwise to brian@ucsd.edu. Archives of past issues of the TCP-Group Digest are available (by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives". We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official policies or positions of any party. Your mileage may vary. So there. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 11:40:31 -0500 From: rhorer@medics.jsc.nasa.gov (Kyle Rhorer) Subject: IP encapsulation To: TCP-Group@UCSD.EDU Pardon my ignorance, but why do folks want to encapsulate IP in IP? It seems to me like that just adds overhead without adding functionality. I'm obviously missing something here. -- "It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice." Kyle Rhorer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . rhorer@medics.jsc.nasa.gov ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Sep 94 10:28:52 -0400 From: crompton@nadc.nadc.navy.mil (D. Crompton) Subject: NOS as router To: tcp-group@ucsd.edu I have to take russ' side on this one. Or at least lean towards his side. NOS has served as a router here admirably. It runs 24 hours a day, 7 days a week and has been for over a year. It is just a router and a re-mailer, allowing internet to amprnet mail. It allows full routing from ampr to internet. It passes an average 2 million characters/day which is not staggering by any means but considering it goes to 1220/2400 baud endusers that is fairly substantial. It also servers as a router for for other machines on the ethernet. In the last 24 hours over 20k packets were passed and 4 million characters onto the amprnet side. It runs like a top - knock wood! System - 80386-16 mhz. 3c509 slip (9600 baud) to ampr gateway jn108dfb Doug ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 10:56:56 -0700 (PDT) From: rosenaue@mprgate.mpr.ca (Dennis Rosenauer) Subject: NOS as router To: tcp-group@UCSD.EDU According to D. Crompton: > > > I have to take russ' side on this one. Or at least lean towards > his side. NOS has served as a router here admirably. It runs 24 > hours a day, 7 days a week and has been for over a year. It is > just a router and a re-mailer, allowing internet to amprnet mail. > It allows full routing from ampr to internet. It passes an average > 2 million characters/day which is not staggering by any means but > considering it goes to 1220/2400 baud endusers that is fairly > substantial. I guess it's my time to get into the fray. I find that NOS (I have a fair bit of experience with PA0GRI 1229M and more recently JNOS) doesn't fair all that well on 56K. I has tested NOS as a router on a 56K link between two ethernets. Xmaze crashes NOS in about 2 to 3 mazes. The PC running NOS is totally wedged, you have to reset the PC to get it running again. In my tests I had a pair of Suns, one on each side of the 56K link. I also found that if you extend the number of buffers it will help a fair bit but I have crashed it. TCP connections don't seem to suffer the same fate. They will hold up for a long time. (at least a couple of days) I haven't tried NFS traffic yet but I have transferred a lot of large files using FTP which uses a pair of TCP connections. At 56K transferring several megabyte files are not unreasonable and I have yet to crash NOS or Linux (with the PI driver) using FTP. -- Dennis Rosenauer VE7BPE rosenaue@mpr.ca MPR Teltech Ltd. Wireless Transmission Products "For every vision there is an Burnaby, B. C. equal and opposite revision" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Sep 1994 15:24:31 -0400 From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: NOS as router To: rosenaue@mprgate.mpr.ca (Dennis Rosenauer) > I guess it's my time to get into the fray. I find that NOS (I have > a fair bit of experience with PA0GRI 1229M and more recently JNOS) > doesn't fair all that well on 56K. I has tested NOS as a router > on a 56K link between two ethernets. How about just plain Phil Karn KA9Q NOS, without all of the other cruft? > Xmaze crashes NOS in about 2 to 3 > mazes. The PC running NOS is totally wedged, you have to reset the PC > to get it running again. In my tests I had a pair of Suns, one on > each side of the 56K link. I also found that if you extend the number > of buffers it will help a fair bit but I have crashed it. TCP > connections don't seem to suffer the same fate. They will hold up > for a long time. (at least a couple of days) You mean that TCP connections other than Xmaze on port 6000 last a long time? This sounds like a many-small-packets stress related problem rather than bulk data transfer problem, but that's just a guess. > I haven't tried NFS traffic yet but I have transferred a lot of large files > using FTP which uses a pair of TCP connections. At 56K transferring > several megabyte files are not unreasonable and I have yet to crash > NOS or Linux (with the PI driver) using FTP. Louis A. Mamakos, WA3YMH louie@alter.net UUNET Technologies, Inc. uunet!louie 3110 Fairview Park Drive., Suite 570 Voice: +1 703 204 8023 Falls Church, Va 22042 Fax: +1 703 204 8001 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Sep 94 14:35:57 EDT From: cokstein@hoh.mbl.edu (Charles Okstein) Subject: Putting pk232 in KISS - here's how. To: tcp-group@ucsd.edu I was having getting my pk232 into kiss from autoexec.nos. Thanks for everyone's suggestion. I solved the problem by adding '\r' to the ends of the command lines. But the REAL fix was to send the pk232 a '*' comm ax3 "*" before any other commands. Thanks for your help. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Sep 1994 15:26:28 -0700 From: uswnvg!tconboy@uunet.uu.net (Terry Conboy) Subject: Putting pk232 in KISS - here's how. To: uunet!ucsd.edu!tcp-group@uunet.uu.net At 02:35 PM 9/2/94 EDT, Charles Okstein wrote: >I was having getting my pk232 into kiss from autoexec.nos. Thanks for >everyone's suggestion. I solved the problem by adding '\r' to the >ends of the command lines. > >But the REAL fix was to send the pk232 a '*' >comm ax3 "*" >before any other commands. > >Thanks for your help. Can you tell us why the "*" is needed? 73, Terry -- Terry Conboy N6RY tconboy@uswnvg.com vm:206-450-8388 fax:206-450-8399 Speaks for neither U S WEST NewVector Group nor AirTouch Communications ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 21:24:39 +0100 From: "Brian A. Lantz" Subject: Putting pk232 in KISS - here's how. To: Terry Conboy On Fri, 2 Sep 1994, Terry Conboy wrote: > At 02:35 PM 9/2/94 EDT, Charles Okstein wrote: > >But the REAL fix was to send the pk232 a '*' > >comm ax3 "*" > >before any other commands. > > > >Thanks for your help. > > Can you tell us why the "*" is needed? > AEA's "autobaud"ing code. Needs to "see" an '*', and decode it as such, to determine the baud rate being used. ----------------------------------------------------------- Brian A. Lantz/KO4KS brian@lantz.cftnet.com REAL PORTION of Microsoft Windows code: while (memory_available) { eat_major_portion_of_memory (no_real_reason); if (feel_like_it) make_user_THINK (this_is_an_OS); gates_bank_balance++; } ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 21:02:35 PST From: "schoon" Subject: Putting pk232 in KISS - here's how. To: uswnvg!tconboy@uunet.uu.net (Terry Conboy), Received: by ccmail from ada.com >From mailfail@UCSD.EDU X-Envelope-From: mailfail@UCSD.EDU Received: from nic.cerf.net by ada.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18749; Fri, 2 Sep 94 17:24:57 PDT Received: from ucsd.edu (ucsd.edu [132.239.254.201]) by nic.cerf.net (8.6.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA20459 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 1994 17:22:57 -0700 Received: from relay3.UU.NET by ucsd.edu; id PAA28108 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun via ESMTP Fri, 2 Sep 1994 15:29:32 -0700 for Received: from uucp3.UU.NET by relay3.UU.NET with SMTP id QQxfrd07940; Fri, 2 Sep 1994 18:29:25 -0400 Received: from uswnvg.UUCP by uucp3.UU.NET with UUCP/RMAIL ; Fri, 2 Sep 1994 18:29:33 -0400 Received: from nv2410.uswnvg.com by uswnvg.uswnvg.com (5.65/1.35) id AA21363; Fri, 2 Sep 94 15:23:55 -0700 Received: from nv2709 (nv2709.uswnvg.com) by nv2410.uswnvg.com (4.1/1.35) id AA00741; Fri, 2 Sep 94 15:23:53 PDT Message-Id: <9409022223.AA00741@nv2410.uswnvg.com> X-Sender: tconboy@nv2410 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 02 Sep 1994 15:26:28 -0700 To: uunet!ucsd.edu!tcp-group@uunet.uu.net From: uswnvg!tconboy@uunet.uu.net (Terry Conboy) Subject: Re: Putting pk232 in KISS - here's how. X-Mailer: Terry, The single asteric forces the 232 to sync with the comm port. It's the autobaud function. Mark schoonover At 02:35 PM 9/2/94 EDT, Charles Okstein wrote: >I was having getting my pk232 into kiss from autoexec.nos. Thanks for >everyone's suggestion. I solved the problem by adding '\r' to the >ends of the command lines. > >But the REAL fix was to send the pk232 a '*' >comm ax3 "*" >before any other commands. > >Thanks for your help. Can you tell us why the "*" is needed? 73, Terry -- Terry Conboy N6RY tconboy@uswnvg.com vm:206-450-8388 fax:206-450-8399 Speaks for neither U S WEST NewVector Group nor AirTouch Communications ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 23:32:08 -0800 (PDT) From: jmorriso@bogomips.ee.ubc.ca (John Paul Morrison) Subject: TCP-Group Digest V94 #189 To: karn@qualcomm.com (Phil Karn) > > >You've got to be kidding. I need to run KA9Q because it has an 'encap' > >interface (tunneling IP over IP) for gateways, and I can easily hang a > >KA9Q router. For example, a wayward RPC program can go nuts sending > >out udp packets to portmap on a machine on the other end, instant > >sieze up of the NOS router. Or (so I'm told) run xmaze through a KA9Q > >box that's routing to a 56kbps tcp/ip packet network, one or two mazes > >get drawn and the NOS box dies. Maybe NOS just doesn't like UDP. > > This doesn't make any sense, at least not if NOS is just routing the > UDP packets. A router doesn't even look beyond the IP headers of the > packets it routes. NOS is only being used as a router. (OK, maybe it's not a UDP thing. Come to think of it, NOS has crashed when I've done ftp's *through* the NOS router to other machines) > My NOS router at home stays up for months at a time, despite heavy > daily use (from my BSDI box) for just about every protocol in the > suite - Telnet, FTP, rlogin, X, NFS, DNS, NNTP, SMTP, you name it. run xmaze and one/both of the NOS routers crashes. I believe the setup (it's not mine, but he's using the same basic gear) was: Sun ======== NOS ---------- NOS ======== Sun (or whatever) === ethernet --- 56kbps packet My own setup (I'm more familiar with it) is: Linux (ancient) =========== Sun ============ etc. +NOS+++++++++++++NOS+ ---------- Linux (new) =========== etc. === ethernet +++ IP encapsulation (the Sun does the real routing) --- 56kbps packet it sure aint the Linux boxes that are crashing. > > Maybe the problem is that people are trying to add too much > application cruft to NOS instead of using it as the simple low-end > router it was designed to be. I would be the first to agree. We're not using it for any services. I didn't mean to bitch or sound ungrateful, but Russel Nelson appeared to be claiming NOS was a panacea. I've just never seen NOS stand up to "real" use as a router. An example from the distant past: I wanted to route TCP/IP from an ethernet to an arcnet network. I tried NOS. It would stop routing after a day or two. It would crash depending on what version of NCSA people used on the arcnet PCs to ftp from the Suns. So I installed PCRoute, and it's run for years, only rebooting due to the power failures on campus. > > Phil > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- BogoMIPS Research Labs -- bogosity research & simulation -- VE7JPM -- jmorriso@bogomips.ee.ubc.ca ve7jpm@ve7jpm.ampr.org jmorriso@rflab.ee.ubc.ca --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 16:53:15 -0500 From: rhorer@medics.jsc.nasa.gov (Kyle Rhorer) Subject: Thanks (Was: IP encapsulation) To: tcp-group@ucsd.edu Thanks to Alan Cox, Brandon Allerby, and a fellow named Jack (jks@giskard.utmem.edu) for responding to my question about IP-IP encapsulation. My theory was right: I was overlooking the obvious. -- "It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice." Kyle Rhorer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . rhorer@medics.jsc.nasa.gov ------------------------------ End of TCP-Group Digest V94 #192 ******************************